Mr. S’s World of History

If I became dictator in this time i would defenately get rid of the second and eleventh table due to the lack of necessity, in my opinion, based on what I know, this government was extremely well formed and wouldn’t need many changes.

- Jose Avila
FIRST POST!!!

MR. S. SAYS: AND THE SECOND AND THE ELEVENTH SAY WHAT? AND WHY AND WHY NOT… THERE’S NOT ENOUGH HERE TO FEED A GNAT.. COME ON..ONE SENTENCE GETS YOU NADA.

If I was a dictator during the early republic, and had the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables, I would do what is to the advantage of my people. First of all, I would eliminate two tables, the first one being table 10. I would eliminate table ten because I believe that the first rule is made out of superstition. Maybe people at that time thought that if they buried a body within the city, it would come back and haunt the city. I really don’t believe in superstition, and I would certainly let relatives bury their loved ones in a place where they can at least visit them constantly if they wish, or to at least have the choice. Another reason why I would eliminate table 10, is because women are not allowed to let their sorrows out during funerals. This law does not seem very fair, especially since women are known to be more sentimental than men. Sometimes people need to cry, or simply can’t hold tears back at the sight of a great loss. In these situations, everyone, most importantly women, should be allowed to let their feelings out.
The next table I would eliminate would be table 11. I would eliminate this table because I believe that marriages should not be arranged, or prohibited. There is nothing wrong with people from a high class (patricians) love with people from a low class, (plebeians) or vice versa.
The most important tables for me are definitely tables 8 and 9. I think table 8 is a very important table because it’s a table that demonstrates justice, which should never lack in a country. All of the laws in this table are very fair from my point of view, and I think that without this table, people wouldn’t know what to do whenever someone is killed, or if a patron cheats a client. This table would bring security to the people, and fear to thieves or false witnessing.
Table 9 is also very important because it contains everything that has to do with the death penalty. This way, Rome would be free from treason, and killing someone out of rage or for the fun of it would not be permitted without the careful examination of the case by a just judge. These two tables I would keep, and maybe slightly make a few changes so that some mistakes are not punished so brutally.
The table that I would definitely keep would be table number 1. This table would be for keeps for sure because it is the one that is still with us today. A man, woman, or elder person should go to court when he or she is summoned by obligation. I think that if a person commits a crime, then illness or old age does not matter. If a person does not commit a crime, then that person should still go to court fearlessly to defend your name. I feel that if a person doesn’t show up for court, then that person is guilty.
These are the tables I would Change, eliminate, and keep if I was ever a dictator during the early republic of Rome.

Mr. S. says: Good analysis…good arguments here..well done

I would keep most of the tables except for table 11 because if i was a dictator during the early republic I wouldn’t care if plebeians married patricians. Even if I deleted that table, there still wouldn’t be many marriages between those 2 social classes because the father would most likely not allow his daughter to go down in social class, if married to a plebeian.

MR. S. SAYS: SO ANSWER THE COMPLETE QUESTION PHIL..WHICH ONES AND WHY..AND HOW WOULD MIXING TWO SOCIAL CLASSES WHO DISTRUST EACH OTHER HELP KEEP THE PEACE? THERE’S NOT ENOUGH HERE TO SNEEZE AT..

YOU ARE A DICTATOR DURING THE EARLY REPUBLIC WITH THE POWER TO KEEP OR DELETE ANY OF THE TWELVE TABLES…WHICH DO YOU KEEP AND WHY?..WHICH DO YOU THINK ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT? TELL HOW YOUR LAWS WILL HELP KEEP THE PEOPLE CONTENT….

If I was a dictator during the early republic I would keep the first table that says “If you don’t show to the court you have been summoned, you lose.” I want to keep that table because it is very fair that if you miss a court you lose because the judge has to done other courts. I think the most important tables are the first and the fourth table. This laws will help the people by having Rome more organize.

MR. S SAYS: THAT’S ALL? WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THEM? JUST THE FIRST ONE? WHAT IS THE FOURTH AND WHY WOULD YOU KEEP IT..? COME ON..

If I was dictator during the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables I would do the following:

I would definitely keep table 1 because if you are getting sewed you and you chose not to go, the other side has the right to bringing you whether it is voluntary or by force. And I also agree with the fact that when in trail you should be judge by peers who will have a more understanding for what ever it is that is happening. With out thinking twice I will change table four because part of it is a very crucial law. Who cares if a baby is deformed they still have the right to live and also being deformed is a different meaning to everyone and the ones that think a child is deformed are going to kill it because it didn’t come out to be the way they wanted but it doesn’t mean the child is deformed. I also do not agree with selling your children. What type of business is that? Your own blood is worth so much more than material things. And you also have to consider how much trouble it is for women to give birth to a child so the brainless dad can go making mistakes and have a lot of debts and the innocent children have to pay for it. This part of table four would be deleted. The only part that I will keep is where your will, will be distributed the exact way you wrote it. Every one has the choice to decide who your money and property to go to. Table five will be deleted automatically because a woman does not need a man to make her look good. When she reaches her majority she can be free to be alone with no man in charge of her unless she chooses to. Instead I would add that women can own their own property, you know because it time for woman to step up. I would also keep table seven and eight because I agree with these laws. You should pay if you do damage to yours neighbor’s house or property and you should take legal action. But what I would also had to this is that if anyone is trying to rob you whether it is day or night you should be able to kill them if in any way you feel threatened. Table ten and eleven would be eliminated because I do not agree with the fact that you can not marry between plebeians and patricians. Every one has their own choice to decide who are they going to marry whether it be poor or rich. But what would also not be allowed is marrying with out love. Because marriage is a huge commitment and it should be taking seriously and under my dictatorship it most definitely will. You can only marry if there is love and not this craziness about social division. Also what would be deleted this nonsense about women not being able to cry during a funeral. Every one should let their emotions out and especially during a funeral when your loved ones are gone. Matter of fact it will become law to cry when saying good bye to your loved ones that are gone. So under my dictatorship it will be fair and equal and the laws are based on pretty well thought out facts!

Mr. S says: Well..Ms. Morgan is fired up…let’s summarize here….keep the ugly babies…who needs men…social division is rubbish…keep wills and testaments..okay I can see that..
one question: “I would definitely keep table 1 because if you are getting sewed you and you chose not to go, the other side has the right to bringing you whether it is voluntary or by force. And I also agree with the fact that when in trail you should be judge by peers who will have a more understanding for what ever it is that is happening.”
What language is that? What does it mean in English? and what is “sewed..like with a needle and thread? I had sewed my pants but they ripped.”? and where is the “trail?” a path? a road? a trail is a path or an unimproved road…I’m confused…but it’s better than last semester….maybe by July…

YOU ARE A DICTATOR DURING THE EARLY REPUBLIC WITH THE POWER TO KEEP OR DELETE ANY OF THE TWELVE TABLES…WHICH DO YOU KEEP AND WHY?..WHICH DO YOU THINK ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT? TELL HOW YOUR LAWS WILL HELP KEEP THE PEOPLE CONTENT….

If i ws a dictator during the early republic i would keep the first and fourth table,because in the first table it says that if you don’t show up in the court that you have been summoned you will lose.I like that table,because when you miss a court you should lose cause its your fault that you didn’t show up in the court.The fourth table says that all women should have a guardianship.I want to keep that table,because is fair for the woman to get a guardian.In my opinion this laws will help Rome be more Organizing.(couldn’t think of another word) Mr. S says: the word is “organized…”

Mr. S says: Mr. Abbott…you posted..finally..now we just have to get you to post more than one sentence and writing in some kind of English we will be ahead of the game….okay so Chris would kill the ugly babies…keep women with a guardian…because it’s fair he says..why is that fair Chris..I’m open for your argument but you didn’t give me one..and make people keep their court appointments..okay..
Give me more Chris..this won’t feed a bird..

If I eve became the dictator during the early republic with the power of keeping or deleting any of the twelve tables I would defiantly get rid of the second and the eleventh one, I agree with Jose that those are the ones that should be deleted. I would get rig of the second one because I simply think it is just trying to get an extra table in there, it could simply go in the first table, it refers to it. I also think that the eleventh table should be deleted because I don’t agree with the prohibition of the marriages between the plebeians and patricians. If they want to get married they should be able to. I think that the most important tables are the first one, the fourth one, the fifth one, the eighth one, and the ninth one.

Mr. S says: okay..first..DO NOT POST WITHOUT SPELL CHECKING…defiantly? rig?..and what about the 4th, 5th, 8th, and 9th that will make Rome better? Simple stuff here..follow directions..answer the question that is posted and answer it completely..Emilio old buddy..try again..take your time…do this assignment right.. don’t turn in suckus maximus…

Looking back at the twelve tables, you may think that some of them are weird or crazy. but they truly had a lot of thought put into them and if you think about it, most of them make sense. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t change any of the laws, but maybe tweak a few around. As a woman and most definitely a feminist, I would make sure that the laws enabled women to be treated as equals to their male counter parts.

If I was dictator the first law to be changed would be table three law number one. Instead of being put into stocks or fetters, the said debtor would be enslaved to the man he cheated for the amount of time decided by the magistrate. In table four, feminine rights would be demanded, a dreadfully deformed child would have a standard; dreadfully deformed is not defined as being the gender, hair, skin, eye coloring the father or mother desire. Therefore, the slaying of a child who falls under that category would be considered murder, and is punishable by death. For law two of table four, daughters would be included. Table five would have to go; it would be replaced by a law stating that girls could not be married off until they reach the minimum age of fifteen. Table six law five, squatters rights would not be defended if the owner of the property were off at war, and squatters would be forced to abandon the land if the soldier ever came back. Other than these specific laws I believe that the other laws contributed to Rome’s success.

Of all the laws I believe that table one is very important to keeping civil peace and limit strife between neighbors. Table seven is an awesome law that really and truly defines government even today, if not for… . Table eight is essential to keeping people from “accidentally” hurting others.

The new laws I would have chosen would have kept the people content by making men and women equal. When women are not married off at ten, they would be able to bear children longer and allowed the children to be more developed when born, allowing a “super breed” of Romans to be born. By changing the squatters laws more people would be inclined to join the army and the roman army would become even stronger.

I truly believe that many of Rome’s laws had already reached a level of perfection. This is especially true when you consider how many modern governments are modeled after the roman’s original republic.

Mr. S says: How can I argue with this kind of equality driven feminist logic? All I can possibly say is…very well done…I mean…you know..for a girl….

If I was a dictator I would accept and decline the following tables. The first table should be kept because it basically tells the consequences for a summoning/trial and who will be protecting you. You wouldn’t want the person you sew to have an unlimited time to show up to a trial and have him defend you when he sews you. The second is acceptable for contacting/reminding your witness. The third I would keep because the punishment is great. The fourth table is incredibly retarded, why would you kill a baby that had not had a life because of deformity, everyone should have the right to live. Also no one person should have the right to decide your life. Those who have gone insane should not have money. A baby of ten months should have the father’s inheritance because it was the fathers fault not the baby’s. The fifth table is correct, you should have a women al by herself she should always be cared for. Sixth is a good law except for part 6, women should do as she wishes that is appropriate. The seventh table is just inhumane; all people that are guilty shall have a trial to what should be the punishment. Except for part 5, it’s acceptable. The ninth is acceptable. The Tenth table is acceptable; I don’t want to smell burnt flesh in the morning. But the third part is wrong, they should cry if the feel like it. The eleventh is screwed up, anyone should marry anyone. The seventh is acceptable; accept for the part about slaves. That is how my territory will be run, KINDA.

Mr. S says: Okay..a little thin on descriptions here…the word is sue..not sew..sew is what you do with a needle and thread…I was really with you until you said:
“A baby of ten months should have the father’s inheritance because it was the fathers fault not the baby’s.”….the fathers fault? huh? what father? Andrew..let’s have a talk about the birds and the bees here …Daddy & Mommy….and nine months later…Andrew…nine…nine..Andrew….at ten I be axing who be duh daddy and why do his baby be have my moneys?

If I was ever a dictator in the Republic (which I would have loved to be), I would have obliterated a few tables but firmly enforced other laws. The tables I would get rid of would be Table II, and X. Table II would need to be erased because it would do no good to anyone, not even to the summoner. If I could, I would change the law instead! The summoner should be paid a certain amount of coins by his/her witness who was absent. Table X must go also because it seems too religious. If I did not delete this law I would change the second section by saying that MALES are not allowed to cry or wail during funerals, because this would fit the Roman values better than the original rule. I have quite a few tables I consider very important. The first one would be Table I. This type of law is still being in use today because this rule actually puts laws into effect. It does not matter if a person believes he has committed a crime or not, he must go and be judged according to the laws. Table III is very important also because this law does not only show how to keep promises but the consequences that will follow if they are not kept. (I personally think that promises are one of the most important things in life.) It is the right for the creditor to take care of the one in debt no matter what. Table IX would be held strongly because this law shows justice. I believe it is justice that puts the things in life into order and one firm thing that brings justice is this table. The most important table of all is the last table. Just like you said Mr.S, Table XII, Section 5 is truly SOOOOOOOOOOOOO important. This law makes all the other laws happened and gives the magistrate the authority to decide who or what is right or wrong. It would truly show the reason why law exists – fairness and justice.

Mr. S says: Okay..very well thought out..I like your analysis here..make the guy who wasted your time waiting for him to show up in court pay YOU…I like that..seems quite Roman..wonder why they didn’t fashion it that way? Table X seems religious because as you will find out ..everything..everything was about religion..but Ms. Kim you are tough..death to ugly babies!!!….and no males better be crying after we execute their butt ugly baby….you are tough…

If I were a dictator during the Early Republic in Rome, and had the ability and power to keep and delete any of the Twelve Tables I wanted, I would start with eliminating number one in Table IV. This law states that if a child is dreadfully deformed, it shall be killed quickly. I disagree completely! I believe that there is no reason to kill any child, no matter how deformed or hideous he or she may be. Babies were even killed if they weren’t the gender the parents wanted, due to the authority and power of the Paterfamilias. A child should be loved no matter what, and killing him or her would be the exact opposite of love! Another table I would get rid of is Table X. Number three says that women shall not tear their faces nor wail on account of a funeral. When someone important to another person dies, it’s hard not to express your feelings by crying. I think that women have every right to wail at a funeral.
There are several tables that I would want to keep. Although i wish to get rid of number one in Table IV, I’d like to keep number two. It states that if a father sells his son three times, the son shall be free from his father. I don’t think pawning humans is right, especially not by their own father! If a father sells his son more than three times, he clearly either isn’t a good father, or can’t afford to support his son. Therefore, I believe that this law is perfect, since it will free a child from slavery and possible abuse! Number three of Table IV basically says that whoever a man says his money shall go to in his will, even if it’s his pet dog, the money shall go. This law makes a lot of sense to me, because if you live a long life of working, and you make a lot of money, you should be able to choose who you want your hard earned money to go to, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.
By getting rid of number one in Table IV, and three in Table X, women will probably be more happy in life. When women are happy, men are mostly happy… and I would like Rome to be a happy, peaceful place when I rule. Keeping number two in Table IV will also help make my city more peaceful, because it will have less young slaves, and less slave owners.

Mr. S says: Okay it will be a happier place then…but I still get to kill the home intruders right?

If I was a dictator during the Early Republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables, I would delete Tables 4, 5, and 11. Table Four states the power of the paterfamilias. I would remove this Table because it gives the paterfamilias too much power over his family and in a way would strip the family of their rights. This would keep the people happy because the children of a family would be free individuals with their own rights. The Fifth Table states that females can never be alone or without guardians. I would remove this Table because women should be able to live on their own without anyone else controlling their lives. This would keep the women of the Early Republic content because they would no longer live under the control of the men in their families and be able to do whatever they wished to do. Table Eleven says that marriages between plebeians (lower class) and patricians (patricians). I would remove this Table because I don’t think that marriage should be based on class. I believe that marriages should be based on love and not on what class they belong to. This would keep the people happy because any couples from different classes who were in love could get married.

Mr. S says: Okay…very nice quick humanistic responses..marry whom you want…aren’t marriages in many parts of India arranged(class and/or alliance) even today? I see you do not approve..but, does love pay the rent?…paterfamilias too much power..but the boys in the family will eventually have rights…why delete 5?

If I was a dictator of the Early Roman Republic I would take out Tables 4, 5 and 11. I would remove Table 4 because I think that the paterfamilias shouldn’t have power over their family’s life and that each individual should rule their own life. This would keep the people happy because all the children would be free from the control of their parents. The fifth Table mentions that women are not allowed to be alone but I think that women should be free to do as they please. This would make the people happy because women would have rights and they would be able to rule their lives as they want to. Table 11 talks about marriage between the patricians and the plebeians. This would keep everyone happy because they could find love plus the paterfamilias would be able to do business with other families of higher or lower income through marriage.

Mr. S says: Gabriela….I’m confused..would you keep table 11…? they could find love? who? does class intermarriage matter to you or not?.you did not say …what exactly would a woman be able to rule?…look at the better posts that I have said “good analysis”..I want yours to look like theirs…more content, more logic and a better argument…

Well if i was a dictator in the early republic i would not delete any of the Tables, i would merely amend and possibly delete some sub-clauses. The majority of the laws within the tables i find to be very important and key to the survival of Rome. However, i think that ,contrary to the beliefs of some other students(or dictators), as nice as it would be to eliminate table eleven(11) i don’t think this would be widely accepted among the populus in particular the patrician community. Also table ten(10) sub clause two(2), which states “The women shall not tear their faces nor wail on account of the funeral” i do believe this can be deleted on the count of i do not see the reasoning behind it, in my mind i believe it is wrong to deny the people the right to display emotion upon certain occasion. Other than these two minor flaws i think that all of the other tables have accurate and effective laws that enable a well governed republic, and the laws that are not accurate and effective are laws that the populus need have in order to maintain stability. The most important table to me is table nine(9) because it handles with alot of difficult situations and has really effective consequences, i also feel it necessary for their to be a good deal of law and order within such a great city.

Mr. S says: Well done…a little too thin….but…there will be many more postings..You are a true republican…very conservative law and order guy here…keep the peace without offending the other order..that was indeed the case…but, kill those ugly children after all they can’t help the state….okay..emotional women…Nico, women crying defies the will of the gods…you obviously die not because you wanted to..the gods wanted you to…the gods watch over Rome…keep them pleased and Rome prospers….defy them and you put all Rome at risk..bad things will happen..Vesuvius will erupt..droughts, famine, plague..or worse..Gauls will come..it’s not about an individual or her feelings..see? It’s about the good of everyone not one person…see how they think?

Hey Maria, i agree with most of your post however do you not agree that table ten(10), section one(1) the part about burning corpses, is important in order to prevent fires in such an overcrowded city? Also don’t you agree that perhaps this law wasn’t made based on superstition but rather, i don’t know, city planning?

If I were a dictator in the early times of Rome I would eliminate part 2 of Table Three as it is quite extreme and violent to get the body parts of a man who is in your debt. I would get rid of it because it’s cruel and also because I wouldn’t like getting a guy’s arm and leg instead of the money he owes me. In Table Four I would get rid of the part of killing a deformed child because that is really cruel and inhumane. I would also change Table Ten because it is foolish that Romans shouldn’t be allowed to be buried in Rome. Even though it a superstitious thing like Maria pointed out it should be changed that only thieves and criminals should not be buried Rome since they are a disgrace to Rome. Also I would definitely take out the part about women not being allowed to cry at a funeral because that is something that you can’t really hold in or control easily, especially girls who are very sentimental. Last, I would take out Table Eleven because it should be the people’s choice if they want to marry a person in a lower social class than they are in. For me Table One is very important because it makes sure that people go to court when they’re supposed to. The Eight Table is also a really good one because it emphasizes how serious it is to lie to a judge as you will be killed; this makes sure the truth gets out. Table Nine is also really critical for a good system of law because if you don’t have it everyone could bribes the judges and the other laws would be of no use. It also secures that people must be held to a trial before they can be killed. The rest of the Tables I would keep or make little change too as they are very good, and also if I changed the law too much the people would probably not be too happy with me and might decide to kill me. My laws would keep the people content because they are fair and less cruel than the old ones; they consider everyone and their lives would be better with them.

Mr. S says: Well done Vince..good analysis..good arguments..well reasoned…I think the burial situation had more to do with sanitation and health..we’ll talk about it..a funeral pyre is a pretty nasty business…necessary but nasty..

As we all know, the most important legacy the Romans left us is their written laws and a constitution. The twelve tablets are the basis of the roman constitution, as well as traditions.
If I were a dictator during the early Republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables I would definitely delete tables II, IV numbers 1 and 2, V, VI numbers 5 and 6, X and XI. I would eliminate table II because there is no need to be uncivilized by using loud calls to summon someone who wont go to the magistrate. Table IV numbers 1 and 2 because there are different points of view, and what might seem as a “dreadfully deformed child” to some people is not the same to others, for example in terms of gender or eye color. Also, selling a son or daughter for me is not a solution to financial problems. Table V is totally against the rights of women, so that one must be eliminated. In my opinion, table VI numbers 5 and 6 are unfair because as the example that Mr. S used in class, what if someone becomes a soldier and serves in the military for 16 years and when he comes back he has no land? It’s simply not fair. Table X, as Mafe said, sounds superstitious and it is not convenient for the citizens that live in the city to have to travel all the way outside of the city to visit their loved ones’ graves. Also I think there is no reason why women shouldn’t cry in funerals. That’s a way one can release the emotions and move on, and I think it is not right to take away the right to cry and move on. Finally, table XI must be eliminated because it doesn’t matter if a patrician marries a plebian as long as they are in love. It’s not right to do arranged marriages, not even to keep the family’s name in the patrician class.
For me, the most important laws are table I because it deals with the actual trial and what happens if the accused doesn’t show up or refuses to go. Table III because if someone is in debt, they have time to pay and if they refuse to pay, the loaner can take them to the magistrate and make them pay in some other way. Table VII, because it deals with the Theory of Causation, which is still used today. Table VIII because it deals with the Theory of Damages, like falling on an iced side walk. Table IX for when the magistrates are being corrupt, it’s always necessary to have a law that protects the ones in trial. Table XII number 5 because then it wouldn’t be fair for someone to go to prison when last week someone else committed the same crime and is free.
The roman constitution was so well thought out, that some of the laws presented in the twelve tables are stilled used in present time. For roman times, these laws were very helpful and gave them a structure to live their lives in.

Mr. S says: Ok..well done here..I can still kill intruders into my house so I’m happy in your republic..make sure you capitalize Roman…and not a “loaner” but a creditor..someone who extends or gives money or credit…

If I were to become a dictator in the early years of the Rep. Rome and have the ability to delete any of the tables I would first do away with Table 5 because women are equal to men politically, but I imagine people thought they were worthless because you couldn’t take them to work on the fields due to there lack of strength and because Rome is an agricultural city state. Table 4 would also be deleted I mean I know it sounds like a great idea for parents but what if that kid who has just been sold to slavery could have been the next Alexander, its giving to many opportunities away. Then I would eliminate table 11, because people should have the right to marry with whom ever they desire. The most important table in my opinion is table 1 because it’s the basics of a trial and going to court.

Mr. S says: Well you were heading in the right direction and then all of a sudden you came to a screeching halt….so why is 1 important.. I know there are basics here but what does it do to make Rome a better place..your analysis of women is dead on..but in this ancient economy…how will they work and consequently how will they eat?..and so you’d also kill them butt ugly goat smelling babies…you are really harsh….and again..25% of your total grade is worth more than this post..If you want an excellent grade then I want more from you..more content and more analysis..

YOU ARE A DICTATOR DURING THE EARLY REPUBLIC WITH THE POWER TO KEEP OR DELETE ANY OF THE TWELVE TABLES…WHICH DO YOU KEEP AND WHY?..WHICH DO YOU THINK ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT? TELL HOW YOUR LAWS WILL HELP KEEP THE PEOPLE CONTENT….
If I was a dictator during the early republic I would keep the first table that says “If you don’t show to the court you have been summoned, you lose.” I want to keep that table because it is very fair that if you miss a court (date) you lose because the judge has to done(done? the past tense of do?) other courts. I think the most important tables are the first and the table 8. I think that are the most important laws because it keep the city organize (organized)with with less percent of crimes and murder. The table I would eliminate is table 11. I would eliminate that table because in my opinion is very unfair to marry by arrangement. I think that is very unfair because my thinking is not to marry someone you don’t love or marry someone because of money because your parents want to. These laws will help the people by having Rome more organize(organized!!) and also the people in Rome could have more freedom in their arraignment (arrangement?). Also the people in Rome will feel that they are very secure in their countriy and they will feel also confident.<that is probably true…

Mr. S says: okay..better..but from now on..spell check before you post..

If I was a dictator during the early Republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables the fist table I would delete is table 4 because I don’t believe in killing a child just because it has some disability. I would add something to the 5th table which states Females should remain in guardianship even when they have attained their majority. I would change instead of until they maintain majority ill change it until they decide to move out and make a life for themselves. I would completely eliminate table 10 number 2, because the idea of having a law that the women shall not tear their faces nor wail on account of the funeral is outrages! It totally takes away any freedom the woman has to grieve the death of a loved one. I would also eliminate table 11 because people should have the right to live their own lives without the interference of the government and be free to love whom they wish. The other tables I would keep because they would later help keep order in the Republic and will enhance the growing empire of Rome with this organization of laws. The most important tables I believe are tables 7 and 8 because they are clear and will benefit the citizens of Rome. It will make the citizens of Rome content because these laws will give them a sense of security and keep tranquility with fellow citizens.

Mr. S says: Okay..not bad for the first one..but I expect more from you…read my comments about Women and eating…and working and offending the gods at funerals and we’ll talk about this in class…so tell me, in your Republic how will usucapio keep returning soldier-farmers “content?”

If I were a dictator back in the good old days of Ancient Rome, I’d definitely have to think twice before I removed one of The Twelve Tables, After all, were talking about the laws of one of the most prosperous empires known to man.
All said, I’d like to remove one minor sub-table. The one I’m talking about is Table VIII sub-table 3. This sub-table states that “If one is slain while committing theft by night, he is rightly slain.” Sure, this sub-table makes plenty of sense, but they repeat it in sub-table 12. What’s up with that? Unless maybe there’s a lot of stealing at night that went on in Rome or something and they need to write it twice, I don’t see the point in writing the same thing twice.
Moving on, I’d like to remove Table XI, which states that “Marriages should not take place between plebeians and patricians.” Who is the law to tell you who you can marry and who you can’t? I bet the patricians think the plebeians are scum, but if they don’t want to marry a plebeian, all they have to do is say ‘No’ instead of making a whole law that prohibits marriage between the two completely.
I would also like to get rid of Table X. As Maria said, the Romans were a superstitious folk who believed that ghosts could come back to ‘haunt’ the town, however we now know that they were probably wrong, and they should be able to bury the body somewhere where they could visit the grave quickly and easily (as long as they bury the corpse in an appropriate place). Also as Maria said, although not necessarily true, women can be more sentimental than men and the 2nd sub-table is extremely sexist.
I rather dislike Table I sub-table 1, where it says that if you wish to summon someone to court, you have to go get them yourself. It’s really the only way someone could be summoned, as they didn’t have police or anything to do it for them, however, it seems rather inefficient to have to chase down a possible criminal yourself, especially if you are handicapped or limited in some way. Aside from this, Table I is a very strong and necessary part of the Twelve Tables.
Table VIII is quite vital, as it deals with justice. It talks about if you wrong someone, or are wronged by someone; you must compensate for it or be compensated for. This Table brings a sense of security to the people, as they know that they are safe, and it brings discouragement to thieves as they won’t get away with whatever mischief they bring upon society.
The last sub-table of Table XII is quite essential to law structure. It is the doctrine that when a court has laid down a principle of law relevant to a certain set of facts, it will stand by this principle when the facts are significantly the same.

Mr. S says: yep…good points all…good analysis..I’m a Roman with you in your Republic..you’re a little too democratic..but maybe you have some Greek in your blood…but at least we still get to eliminate the undesirable babies at birth…I hate ugly babies, don’t you?

If I were a dictator during the early republic and had the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables, I would do it to help my empire and the people in it. So first off I would erase table IV.1. I would do this because children do not deserve to be killed if they look deformed because most of us at that time looked pretty ugly or scrawny. Lets say you were born premature in those days you would have look deformed, or weak but you shouldn’t die because with a little growing time you may just become the next ruler of Rome. Also I would take away Table X. I would take it away because I think that a woman should be able to cry at the funeral of a loved one. Its only common that you are feeling pain when someone you knew had died so crying is only natural. Also I believe that when someone in your family dies you should be able to have the funeral in the city so its easier to visit when needed. However I would defiantly keep Table VII. This is because I especially feel that on VII.9. It should be necessary to take legal action is a case where someone’s tree or other kind of equipment is drifting in your yard and can latter possibly damage to your property then it’s a necessity to take action. An other table I believe should stay is Table VIII, 12 . And this is because if the person is breaking into your house at night and you don’t know who it is its scary especially in the Roman times when there were no lights yet so it was pitch black, and you never know the person who broke in may have even had the thought of harming your family so I would defiantly want to keep this law so that the Romans still are able to defend themselves even if that leads to murder. I would also like to keep table IX, because it shows justice which is very important in such a huge empire such as Rome. Lastly I don’t agree with table XI, because if your in love with someone from the plebeian and you are in the patricians tribe you should have the right to marry the person. These are a few of the tables that I would eliminate, change and keep.

Mr. S says: Good points here…you are coming along in developing your logic.see my comments on the dead and the crying..sanitation and defying the gods….but I want you from now on to SPELL CHECK your post before you post ..defiantly?…you’re arguments and analysis are getting good why wreck it with selling disasters.

Marlaina how many sentences can you make with this ONE sentence?-”And this is because if the person is breaking into your house at night and you don’t know who it is its scary especially in the Roman times when there were no lights yet so it was pitch black, and you never know the person who broke in may have even had the thought of harming your family so I would defiantly want to keep this law so that the Romans still are able to defend themselves even if that leads to murder”….I was out of breath just reading it…Are you trying to kill me?

If I was a dictator during the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables. I would delete table 4, which is the authority and the power of the paterfamilias, because I don’t agree on one of them. I don’t agree with table 4 #1 because I don’t think its fair to kill a new born baby just because he/she was born with deformity. Its not the baby that caused himself to look like that but the parents fault. If I’d have to keep a table, I would keep table 5 because I honestly think that females SHOULD remain in guardianship even when they have attained majority. I also like how in table 4 it talks about the Usucapio I like how the Romans say “finders keepers. I would keep all the tables except table 4. I think this would help the people because for example in table 5 the finders get to keep all the good stuff they found and they don’t have to be wasted by going to the trash so I think its fair for everyone. And by deleting number 4 it would be good for the family because you wouldn’t have to kill the babyJ

Mr. S says: Very interesting Jennifer..you are the only one of the women who praises Table 5….but you didn’t say why…and you would like to keep the things you find…My question is…who pays for the ugly babies in your Republic?

Being a dictator in this period I would keep most of the tables and not really delete the ones that seem unfair to me but I would modify them.

The first table seem very important to me. If the person does not attend he must face the consequences. If you suffer from any type of illness or old age the magistrate will provide you with transportation to get to the court. That means there is no excuse to not go. I would definitely keep that law because it is fair for both the magistrate and the person being charged. The second table is the consequence for not showing up before the magistrate and it should be kept so the man will learn his lesson.

I would change table four because the parent should have the right to keep his child if he wants him that way. A deformed child isn’t going to cause harm to anyone so the choice should be left to the parent.

I would delete table five because the woman should have the option of remaining alone. They could be in guardianship if they want but a woman should not be disturbed by anyone for walking alone.

Table seven is also a fair table because if someone is being disturbed by something of the neighbor’s property that affects him it should quickly be fixed. If the neighbor is given warnings and still doesn’t react he shall face the consequences just like in the first table.

I would get rid of the eighth table because can get away with things just to get easy money and to me that doesn’t seem fair.

Table nine is one that I would keep because murdering should not be accepted and to me that relates to table twelve. The only reason a man should kill is for self defense.

The tables that I choose to keep seem important to me because they are fair. I also think that giving more rights to the women might keep the people content.

Mr. S says: Well done Marcos..but my question is this..How will a crippled child contribute to the state? He can’t farm or work..can’t be in the army..won’t he become a burden on a society with limited resources..I mean there is no grocery store down the street…or if there is there are three aisles..one for bread, one for olive oil, and one for vegetables
who pays for this crippled child?..what will happen to him when he’s 30, 40 or 50? who pays?

If I was a dictator during the early republic and had the power to keep or remove any of the twelve tables, I would keep the tables that benefit me and make my people happy. I would also keep the tables that are fair and punish the people that disobey the law, in a less harsh way. The tables I would keep would be table 7 and 9 and some important laws of table 8. The reason I would keep the laws in table 7 is because they are very fair and have consequences, for example in section 9 if you ask your neighbor to remove something that can later affect you in some way and he refuses to do it, you can do it yourself or if at last it hurts your property he can be summoned. This law is still used today but it depends on the damage that your neighbor’s carelessness caused. Another table I would preserve is table 9 because it prohibits treason and teaches the people to respect and follow the laws. Though I would make a different punishment and use the capital punishment (death) only as a last resort. Table 8 has some good laws and one in particular that I don’t think should be applied to the people. I agree that people should pay the damages for any injury or damage they caused and should have the right to kill a thief at night. This law not only does it show people the consequences of their acts but also encourages them to be honest and faithful to the country. I would keep all the laws from this table except the one that says that you cannot kill a thief during the day.
Most of the tables are fair and are used to make the country a more civilized one. But the tables that I would eliminate are table 10, 6 and 5. In my opinion table 10 and 5 are unreasonable because they make women have less rights then men. Women should be equal to men. They should be allowed to cry whenever they want especially when a family member has died. Other thing female citizens should be allowed to do is to decide if they want to remain in guardianship or if they want to live alone. I think table 6 is very dishonest and corrupt because it allows the person that “finds” or establishes possession of your property to own it without your or your family’s approval.

These are the tables I think should be eliminated and kept for the country’s security.

Mr. S says: So, Ms. Oviedo does not care for usucapio one little bit..women should be allowed to starve to death…capital punishmnet is out? what about the Coloseum in the later Empire..will you make those big kitty cats go hungry? and at a funeral women can get emotional if they want to darn it!..okay…not bad here..

if i was a dictator in the early republic i would keep table 1 because if there was no laws that say you must show to court when summoned then nobody would go, creating chaos. table 2 is important because lets say you as a witness fails to appear in court then every 3 day ,whoever expected you to appear in court, “summons” you by loud noises. I would also keep table 4, this is the source of the authority of the “paterfamilias”. table 4 also mentions about a persons will ” As a man has provided in his will in regard to his money and the care of his property, so let it be binding. If he has no heir and dies intestate, let the nearest agnate have the inheritance. If there is no agnate, let the members of his gens have the inheritance.”-table 4 #3.
table 5 i wouldn’t keep because i think a women can be on her own and not always accompanied by someone. maybe the husbands and sons might find them women a pain in the butt. table 5 doesn’t have much importance to me and i don’t think it would make a difference in Rome. table 6, begins the theory of causation, is an important to keep. this table keeps the roads in order, unless its unpaved then you can drive anywhere you desire, and #9 in table 4- “Should a tree on a neighbor’s farm be bend crooked by the wind and lean over your farm, you may take legal action for removal of that tree.”( this is the basis for the theory of causation).
table 8 ( this one consist of many many laws), this table lays out the basis of theory of damages. most of these laws in this table ensure that if you set a fire and it gets out of control or if someone robs your house at night then that person would pay or kill the robber legally.
table 10 makes sure that no corpses can be burned or buried in the city and that the wifes can’t cry during a funeral. I would keep this law cause without it bodies would be all over the city , which could create diseases and such.
these are the tables i would keep and delete to make the people in the early republic content.

Mr. S says:….whoa…no kidding?…..Phil says kill them ugly babies….wow..you are harsh

If I was a dictator during the period of the republic I would change the table four number one if the kid is really deformed and cant live in that condition it can be killed, but if the kid had a little deformation he or she should live. I would delete table ten because it doesn’t let you express your feelings in a funeral and usually is you have a funeral is because someone that you love or a friend die so off course that you are going to cry its sad. I think that women have to be allowed to go to the funeral if they like.
They could bury someone in the corpse city so it would be easier to visit him and prey for him and no one gets hurt so it would be fine with me.
I would delete table eleven because you could marry who you wanted to but in that year plebeians went their side and patricians went their side so it would be better if you marry someone in your group but it’s not obligatory you could marry who ever you wanted to.
One of the tables that I like is table four number two, I think it is fair if you sell your kid more than three times he should be free because if not he would be going from house to house and it wouldn’t be nice.
Then I would leave the others tables because I think they are important and fair and will make Rome a better republic

Mr. S says: Okay…I can see that..Table 4 and 10 have to go..the corpse city would be the cemetery…

If I was a dictator during that time I will keep all except four and one. Because, with nu8mber four that’s not fair for the children that have necessities, I would put them in a rehab center with woman so the woman can help them no matter if they are males or females. Also I would put a law that the fathers can’t sell there child, they need to stay with him until he/she is grown up and can be a free man or woman. I would also put the child with full inheritance and if it is more than one they would share there inherited goods. I would keep number one too because it is very fair that if you miss a court you lose and also you should be sued for that. Because it is not fair for the judge because he has more courts to attend. I think that everyone should delete number four and keep one because it would help a lot Rome.

Mr. S says: Defomed children to Rehab? Who pays to feed them? What if I don’t have any kids, I don’t want any kids, I hates kids…why should I have to pay for your nasty crippled hungry child??..(Psssst….Juan….don’t turn around…sssshhh… listen, here’s a hint..25% of your total grade… is worth more than this)

If I was a dictator in the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables I would delete table fourth, tenth, and eleventh table. I would delete table number four because if a child is born deformed or is born the opposite sex of what you wanted, it is not fair to kill the child because it is still a human being killed, no matter what sex it is or if it is deformed. I also do not agree with table number ten because I think that the loved one’s should be buried in a place where there relatives or families can go and visit. If the females of a family would go and visit there father they would have the right to cry, because its something natural that comes out and you can’t really hold it in. The last table that I would delete is the eleventh table because I think that you can marry patricians with plebeians, because it’s not all about the social class or how much money you had it is about the inside and if they like each other.
The tables that I think are the most important are the first, seventh, and the eighth table. The first table I think is very important because if you are called to go to court you must go, no matter if your sick or you’re too old, you have to go. The seventh law is if for example a tree of a neighbor is going to fall and you advise the owner and he or she does not cut it down you have legal action to remove the tree. The last important law is the eighth law because if you hurt or damage anything of another person you have to pay. If it is a free man you have to pay more than if it was a slave, but you would still have to pay.
These are the laws that I would keep or delete if I was a dictador.

Mr. S says:okay fair enough, but what about the seventh table (not law) and I don’t have any trees…is it all about trees?..check your spelling BEFORE you post…there and their…and dictator…

As a dictator during the Early Republic, with the power to remove or preserve any of the Twelve Tables; my first choice to eliminate one would unquestionably be Table 11. “Marriages should not take place between plebeians and patricians.” I utterly disagree with this commandment, for I believe that if two people are deeply in love, then their social rank should not forbid them to marry. The creator of this table is evidently single. I believe that the exclusion of this law would benefit my people to the highest degree, for there have been many cases in which couples have had to split due to this unnecessary regulation. I also believe that the family of the patrician would completely oppose to the union with a plebeian due to family’s reputation and social status, but the truth is, they should have no say in this matter, for when marriage comes to hand, the only thing that matters is the people in it, for they do not think of each other as different because of their social rank.

The commandment that I consider to be the most important is undoubtedly Table 8. It describes all that is fair and just, and all my people are incredibly pleased with it, for it regulates crime in Rome, and gives a sense of safety to all. Also, this way, a client can be certain that his patron shall not be treacherous towards him. It also states then when a person commits to be a witness, that he should stand for what he has said, and not back out at the last minute, therefore allowing himself to be called insincere and a coward. This table will also keep the city as a whole safe, for open fires are very dangerous and can cause devastating results that will be punishing for everyone.

These are decisions I would have made if I were a Roman dictator, in order to please and benefit my people.

Mr. S says: Anastasia says…death to ugly babies…and strip the power from the paterfamilias…wow..revolutionary..Dad has no say? Does Dad have any say today?

To have a strong republic you have to have a set of laws that are good for the nation and the people. Early on the Romans realized that they needed laws to keep order and to maintain power, thus the Twelve Tables were created. As the dictator of an early republic with the power to keep the laws that I deem necessary, I would choose the ones that were most needed and that benefited the people.
The first table that I would keep would be Table one. It assures that everyone that is summoned would appear to court and face their crimes. It is a law that we still use today and has effectively brought lawbreakers, no matter how minor the offence is, to trail to face their consequences. Another law that I would keep would have to be table eight. It would keep the people in order by putting fear into them and preventing people from committing crimes, keeping order in society. It lets people know what punishment they will get when they break the law, demonstrating much needed justice. Table nine is also pretty important and should get kept as well. It prevents people from going in random killing sprees whenever they don’t agree with someone. Rome would be free of treason and it would stop people from collecting bribes. The Roman Tables were able to maintain order for some time and they were a good idea, but I would definitely change how extreme the punishments would be for their felonies.
The Romans were pretty smart to generate laws to contain order, but not all of their laws are good for its people. The Table four lets the father kill their baby if it comes out deformed; I believe that the baby should have a chance in life, no matter how short it may end up being. Table five doesn’t let women be their own person, keeping them under a leash as if they were dogs that needed to be watched after. They should have the right to live their life as they choose, not as their “guardian” wished. Table ten is a law that has neither a purpose nor any benefits. It only prevents women from expressing their grief at a loved one’s funeral and from having a dead corpse burned. The last table that I would get rid of would be Table eleven. It doesn’t allow people to marry from different classes; love is never respected in these cases.

Mr. S says: Okay excellent points…good arguments..good analysis….but…I wonder if the law really did not place women on a leash..I think the law was to insure they were being protected and they were being fed…fed? well..how does a woman make money to feed herself in a city of one million with no factories, and no workplaces available for her…and no work because slaves do the work for free…why will I hire and pay you Gabriela, first I will hire my family and then I will buy some slaves….I can get a slave to work for free..how will you pay to eat and live..without work? can women join the Legions? Can women farm by themselves?…think about that one…

If I was a dictator during the early republic and I had control over the twelve tables I would definitely used my influence to help the city in every way, even if it meant erasing some of the tables. One of the tables I would remove would be Table II, “ He whose witness has failed to appear may summon him by loud calls before his house every third day.” I would remove this law because I find it unnecessary and quite similar to the first table, all that I think has changed is the situation that it is being used and that the second table is more explicit as for the first table it is more general and covers everything, this only covers one situation in particular. Another table with which I disagree with would be Table IV, section1 and 2, but mostly 2, “If a father sell his son three times, the son shall be free from his father.” What bothers me about this law and with Romans is their inequality among genders. I wouldn’t completely erase this law but change it so that instead of it only applying to sons it would be for sons and daughters. I know that this would have never stuck in ancient times because women weren’t even considered as useful beings, other than to take care of men and house choirs, but I would have still proceeded with this if I was the dictator back then. And if I am discontent with that law then I am clearly in disagreement with Table V, “Females should remain in guardianship even when they have attained their majority.” This also refers to woman’s role in the roman community but I would still have completely erased this law so that women could be free to make their own decisions. A law that I find infantile is Table VI section 5, “Usucapio of movable things requires one year’s possession for its completion; but usucapio of an estate and buildings two years” It sounds like when little kids say “finders keepers losers weepers.” And it seems like there are better ways of solving it. What I would do is I would modify this law so that it would say that only property could be used after the landholder was absent for two years but when the owner returned the land would return to him. Table X section 3 seems unfair, “The women shall not tear their faces nor wail on account of the funeral.” And so does Table XI, “Marriages should not take place between plebeians and patricians.” Table XII section 2 is also unjust, “If a slave shall have committed theft or done damage with his master’s knowledge, the action for damages is in the slave’s name.” I would modify all the laws above that seem unfair so that they would state the exact opposite.
These are the changes that I would make if by any chance a woman was a dictator during the early republic.

Mr. S says: Well Done Michele…very good analysis here..btw, what is wrong with having a “house choir”…I’d love to have people singing in my house..before the age of radio..Romans had a house choir..very cool..I had no idea..

If I were a dictator during the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the 12 tables, the tables I would absolutely keep would be table 1, table 3, table 8, and table 9. I would keep table 1 because it’s only fair if you get summoned to court you need to go. Why not show up if you know you’re not guilty? To me running away or not showing means you’re hiding something or know you did wrong. And of course if you hide and you really did do wrong the summoner has every right to go after you and claim justice. Table 3 is a keeper too because if you owe someone something it’s only right to pay them back in the certain amount of days given. If you know your limit of days why go over it and get into more trouble? This law is quite simple to follow if you ever get into that situation. I would also keep table 8 because the 2nd part is understanding and obvious. If someone maims one of your limbs, you’re not just going to let that person do it and get away with it. So that’s why you retaliate, just as this law allows you to do so. Also part 23 of this table is very important and serious. It would be unfair to the person being trialed against something he didn’t do, and because of the witness giving false information, that person has to suffer. So I think it is a good law that the witness gets hurled down the Tarpeian Rock. Some things I do not like in this table and think they are just dumb are parts 12 and 13. These parts are just taking up space on the metal plates. It doesn’t make sense that you can kill a thief in the night but not in the day. You shouldn’t have the right to kill anyone at any hour, even if he is breaking into your property and stealing. I think that if you do kill the thief you deserve some consequences too. Because then not only did the thief make a mistake stealing, you did also, by taking someone’s life. The last table I would keep would be table 9 because personally it is my favorite. Any person that becomes a judge knows exactly what he can and can not do. And in this situation it’s obvious to any person that is not judge that you can not be bribed for giving a decision in favor of that person. And because of that bribe it’s correct for the judge to get capital punishment. The law that I think should be enforced completely is part 6 of table 9, because it’s extremely true. If you get put to death with out going to trial or being convicted for what you did is outrageous. And I think it’s good that it’s forbidden. And for the rest of the tables, they have good laws in them. But some of them are just not logical.

Mr. S says: Ms. Bradley is truly on a roll…she says her Republic will keep judges honest so that people will respect the law and not a judge that can be bought. She will require people to pay back their debts… She evidently will, however, kill every one of those butt ugly babies ….but yet she will absolutely not interfere with someone who is robbing her house..interesting…..Ms. Bradley two questions I’m sure we all would like to know..#1 What is your address and…#2…when are you next going out of town…?…we’d like to visit your stuff…

If I were to be dictator of Rome, and could delete any law and keep any I wanted, I would start by changing table 3. I think it is pretty unfair, if you are asking for money is because you don’t have it, and people shouldn’t take advantage of your situation. And that is exactly what gets me about this law. They should have 50 days; if in that amount of time they haven’t given back the money then they should be enslaved. Because is not fair that they take advantage of the one who gives the money; its very contradicting in a way.
I think table 1 is perfect as it is, is important to keep order in the city. And since they don’t have police this is a great way to make people behave. And even today if you don’t attend to court you get in trouble. Table four, if it were this times I would eliminate it, but since is in those times, is a good as it is. But I would still disagree with fathers killing daughters/sons for deformities that might have been something that is common these days.
Table 5 is a definite; women should not be left alone. But this should include some more liberty, that they can have a business but should be able to put it under their name, and should be able to be equal to the father. Even if that was impossible for roman’s to understand. Table 6, I would live it the same, but give more time for the owner to show. If they haven’t shown in 7 years, then the neighbor has the right of the land and can do what he pleases with it. Table 7 is great as it is. No changes for this one. Also agree completely with table 8 and 9.
I do not agree with table 10. I would erase it. Why can’ woman cry? That law is just insane. Also with 11, people should be able to marry whomever they loved. It shouldn’t be set. And if they wanted a successful marriage they should have let their sons and daughters be happy with whomever they loved; even if they were from a lower class. And also with table 12 disagree.

Mr. S says: okay real good job(I want more next time)..you went down the line and took them on one at a time…I like the seven year provision..in fact in today’s common law it is a waiting period of seven years for property not claimed by the owner..see my comments about women crying and offending the gods….how would women get the money to open a business if they couldn’t work?…

If I was a dictator, and had the power to choose which tables to keep and which to eliminate I would first start by eliminating two tables that in my opinion are a bit ridiculous and un just. First, I would eliminate table 10, which says that it is forbidden to bury or burn corps in the city. I would eliminate this table because I believe that a person should choose where they want to bury their loved one in order to be close to them, for visiting or just to have them their because it was the place where they had lived their entire life. Eliminating this table will keep the people of the Republic content, and explaining the reason of this eliminating that having a corps in a city doesn’t cause any harm. Because of course, they are just dead bodies! They will not rise from the ground or haunt the city. Next, I would eliminate table 11 that states a plebian and a patrician cannot marry because I whole-heartedly believe that you should be able to marry whom ever you desire and love, not mattering the social class you are in, as long as both partners agree to marry each other. I believe the people will be happy with the elimination of this table, because then if you happen to fall in love with someone a different social class, there is no trouble, and you don’t have to hide anything regarding marriage from the government.
I definitely think that tables 1 and 7 are the most important. Table 1 states laws on if an accused person is summoned to court that he or she must go to the magistrate along with accuser to debate your case, and if not attending the one who did attends wins. First of all this is a very fair and just table. I believe it puts nessecary order in the republic, and that by this table the people are kept at a pretty even level, where they all have to obey the law, and are held accountable for their actions or they will receive the consequences if not. Table 7, another important table that states that if a tree is bent by the wind over your property, that you have the right to remove it. I think that this is a fair and great law for the safety of the people, because if that tree is bending more and more over your house, you do not want it to fall on you and destroy your home. So in order to keep that regulated this table is important.
Although there are some tables I would eliminate, and alter regarding, changing the punishments of some crimes, or the law of the paterfamilias. I without a doubt entirely believe that the twelve tables are very well thought out and fair for the laws of such an old civilization, and even more, if now, a thousand years are the basis of our own laws.

Mr. S says: Good job Andrea, good analysis…..But, death to pink, butt ugly goaty little babies then right?…remember that although it talked about the bent tree..they didn’t take it 100% literally..causation means a lot of things right?…Remember, But for___________ this would not have happened…remember? Read my coment on the dead body issue..I think it was on Vince’s post..

If I am a dictator during the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables I would delete table 4 section one because I think that no body should die because they are different the rest of table four I would keep it. I will also delete table 11 because if patrician wanted to married a plebian that is his decision. Deleting this table could make happier some patricians and it will make most of the plebeians happier too. And also I would delete table 10 because I think that you should be able to bury your relatives in a place that there families and friends could go any time to visit. The table that I would keep for sure is table 7 because this law is a law that is with us today, for example your neighbor tree is going to fall into your property and you advise him or her to cut it, but he dose not want to cut it so you would have the right to cut the tree. These are the law that I would keep or delete if I am a dictator during the early republic.

Mr. S says: What? Are you kidding me?..not enough here to feed a small bird who was hungry for just a small worm…so of all the tables this is all you write?…you’d keep women in their place in your republic eh? And you’d let me kill any intruder into my house…and finders-keepers is okay with you?…Celso….you know who is writing this right?..you know me right?..One question: why are serving me poo-poo at this history restaurant? Poous Maximus Do this over…

If I was a dictator in the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve tables I would keep table 1, table 3, table 8, and table 9.

I will keep table 1 because if there wasn’t a law that said that you must show to court then nobody would go and nobody would pay for what hey need to pay. For table 3 I will keep it because its fair if you own someone and you have a certain amount of time to pay it back but at the end you don’t pay it back at the time is fair for the other person to take something of yours so he would get his money back. The reason I will keep table 8 is because if you insult someone you should be punish and pay for your bad actions. Also I agree with it because if you destroy someone’s property you should be punished or f you did it on purpose then you should pay for the damage.
The reason I would keep table 9 is because you cant just kill someone with out proving if he was guilty or not so people cant be killed just for fun there has to be a reason to it.

Mr. S says- Okay..you need to answer the question..look at other students responses.. resend this with complete sentences written in correct English..you analyized table 8…now tell me about the others..25% of you grade is worth doing it right..resend it..thanks..

If I was a dictator during the Early Republic in Rome and I had the power to change or remove laws I would first delete table X section 3. This table states that women can’t cry during funerals and let their sorrows out which I find completely unfair because I think that everybody including women should be able to show emotion at all times.
Another law that I would remove is table 4 section 1. This law states that a deformed
Child must be killed quickly and I disagree because I don’t think that any child should be killed no matter how deformed it is and I don’t see why it should be or why it was done.
The last table I would delete would be table XI section 1 that says that plebeians and patricians cant marry. I don’t think this is fair because I don’t believe in arranged marriage and I think that people should be free to marry who they please and off course
love. I agree with all the other tables but especially with table I section 1. I think that this law represents justice and it is truly fair because if your summoned to court you should go especially if you did something wrong and you can accept, and if you didn’t then I really don’t see why you wouldn’t go if you know that you are innocent. And also with table VIII section 3. I don’t agree with murdering but if it is at night and you feel like your life is in danger and its just for protection then I agree with this table.

Mr. S says: hmmmm….I’m not sure I understand this at all: “I agree with all the other tables but especially with table I section 1. I think that this law represents justice and it is truly fair because if your summoned to court you should go especially if you did something wrong and you can accept, and if you didn’t then I really don’t see why you wouldn’t go if you know that you are innocent.” seems rather rushed, not spell checked, with not a lot of analysis here…remember 25% of your grade..look at the other responses…this needs to be fixed and resent..thanks..

If i would be a dictator during the early republic with the power to keep or delete any of the twelve table I would delete table four because is not fair for the handicap baby or too the baby because they are also human bing and they have all the right too live as used. I keep the laws of Table 7 because they are very fair and have implications for all acts that people commit.

Mr. S says..Ms. Levy…did you actually want points for this incomplete sentence that I cannot understand?…do it over please and put some effort into the assignment..thank you..

If I was a dictator of Rome, between the 12 tables the one I think would help me in my leadership are table 1, table 5, table 7 and table 9.
Table 1, I think it’s a fair deal for everybody. I mean we shall have less violence among people. If for every action there’s a consequence people would respect each other their boundaries.
I believe keeping table 5 will help me a lot, because at those times the world was a sexiest world, so men weren’t happy with women having their same rights, and I don’t want any people to be against me so nobody will kick me out of thrown.
I think by keeping table 9 it’s very important, because if theres a lot of violence and killing among my one people I could run out of men for the army. And if I have no army, no battles won and my city could me conquered.
By keeping table 7, it will help the relationship inside the citizens of the community. It is not fair something you don’t own, your neighbors owning, should damage your belongings.
Some of the tables I shouldn’t keep are, table 3, table 4 and 11
Table 3, I think as a dictator I shouldn’t be in between people’s problem of owning things. I mean I didn’t was there when you gave this to your neighbor, how do I know you are not lying, and neither did I tell you, you should have given this to him, you gave it to him with your own trust, its your belonging not mine.
Table 4, I don’t think parents should be killing their sons, neither selling them. I mean if you don’t want them, then why you had it. If you sell your boys, does that mean I could sell your land? Hey I’m the dictator, I rule the city.
Table 11, I shouldn’t be minding people love. You love who you want to love, you marry who you want to marry, I only mind if you have kids for my army.

Mr. S says: Good point..and the only one who brought up the idea of running out of people for the army…very good…after all we are Romans right? What do people whose mother was a wolf do?

Prior to our class discussion on Tuesday, I would have to agree with table XI section 1 which states that plebeians and patricians can’t marry one another. I thought before that this was a horrible law because I don’t believe in arranged marriage but, if both lower and upper class agree that you shouldn’t be aloud to marry each other, then I think that it is all right. If I was a dictator I would first delete table IX section 1. I think that no child should be murdered no matter how deformed it is because it is against the law to kill any human during the day and babies are also human beings. I would also eliminate table X section 3. I think that this law is unjust because women need to show grieve and sorrow when they lose their loved ones. Everybody should be aloud to show emotion and wail. This law is also very unfair because men also cry, but this law is only directed to women. Romans made this law because they thought that the gods would take away their protection when women cried because it was as if they were being told that they were wrong, and that they shouldn’t have killed who ever died. But what difference did it make if they cried during the funeral or after?
I would definitely keep table 1 and table VIII section 3. Table one is important because it puts law into effect. It makes everybody go to trial even thought they might have thought that they were innocent. Another reason why I think that this is a good law to keep is that it told people what would happen if they didn’t show up at court. I agree with table VIII section 3 because if a thief were to go into your house since there were no lights back then you wouldn’t be able to see him or see what his intentions were. He could hurt your family and there would be little you could do in the dark to avoid it but try and kill him. Like today, if you kill someone for protection you don’t go to jail and you are not punished because it is just self-defense.

Good thoughts however..being late will cost you..do these on time..

hey mr s sry i write to u in this blog..but i brought the wrong book where i wrote the web page for our blog..can u send me the webpage please
thanks

No problem..go to: balboaushis208.edublogs.org

I were to become a dictator in the early years of the Rep. Rome and have the ability to delete any of the tables I would first do away with Table 5 because women are equal to men politically. I imagine people thought they were worthless because you couldn’t take them to work on the fields due to there lack of strength and because Rome is an agricultural city state with free labor. Table 4 would also be deleted because the thought of selling a child into slavery with out never revealing the child’s potential is throwing away opportunities. Then I would eliminate table 11, because people should have the right to marry with whom ever they desire even though the hatred among the two social classes would prevent it. The most important table in my opinion is table 1 it’s the basis of getting you the courtroom so you can be judged.

Mr.S Says: Uh Derek…what are you doing?….this is like..the wrong post child…wakey wakey..

YOU ARE A DICTATOR DURING THE EARLY REPUBLIC WITH THE POWER TO KEEP OR DELETE ANY OF THE TWELVE TABLES…WHICH DO YOU KEEP AND WHY?..WHICH DO YOU THINK ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT? TELL HOW YOUR LAWS WILL HELP KEEP THE PEOPLE CONTENT….

If I were a dictator during the early republic, and I had the power to delete any of the 12 table I would delete table 4. Table 4 states that the paterfamilias had the power over life and death of his wife and child/children. If a kid did something that brought shame to the family the father could take his life. I think this is wrong, because everybody does something bad in their life, especially children because they have not matured yet. And I doubt a mere child could do something as bad as to be put to death. But, the fifth part of this table states: A child born after ten months since the father’s death will not be admitted into a legal inheritance). Everything but the fifth part would be erased, because, really think about it, 10 months…yeah.

The most important tables are table 1, because if the person you summon rejects to go you can actually do something about it. If this table didn’t exist, a lot of people would just run away from the trial and nothing could be done about it. Table 3, because if someone owes you something you can either get the money back. Or get an object of his, even if it is that person’s freedom. Table 7, because if the property of your neighbor comes to close to damage some property of yours you should have the right to do something about it, before it is too late. Table 8, because people should pay back for what they have damaged or destroyed. Or if there is an attempt of theft at night, the thief may be killed because in the darkness you don’t know if the burglar is pointing a weapon at you, but if it day, the thief cannot be killed unless he fights. Table 9, because it is extremely unfair to lose a case because of bribery or favoritism. If so, the judge is put to death. And table 12, because if a slave damages something, destroys something, or kills someone the charge is put on the slave, not on the master.

If I were a dictator during the Early Republic with the authority to erase or keep any of the 12 tables, I would erase table four because it is not fair to the baby in killing him just because of his deformality. I would slightly change table five which states females should remain in guardianship even when they have attained their majority and make it for them to decide their own lives. I would eliminate table 11 because people should live their own lives without the government interfering and love whoever they want t love. I would’ve kept the other laws because they could have helped keep order in the Republic and will force the growing empire of Rome with the organization of laws. The most important tables to me are tables eight and seven because they’re easy to follow and will benefit everybody in Rome. It will make the citizens of Rome happy because these laws will give them the feeling of security and hold peace with others citizens.